#139 Overcoming Decision Paralysis: Decoding God's Will and Embracing Change w/ Sonia Haankwenda
Just because something is a "good" opportunity doesn't mean it's the "right" opportunity. How can you tell the difference? We discuss that in today's episode.
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Hey! I'm Clee, the founder/CVO of Build Your Vision LLC, a media & coaching company that trains busy, growth-minded visionaries in self-leadership and personal growth.
My mission is to eradicate internal confusion in my generation and to build the "Vision Economy". A balanced supply and demand ecosystem in which each individual's accomplished vision is the platform for another vision to be actualized.
I post content like skits, videos, interviews, and blog articles to accomplish the goal of creating a world of more visionaries taking action and less dreamers sitting on the sidelines.
Speaker 1:
Have you ever had an idea, an ambition, opportunity that was enticing and interesting, but you weren't quite sure if it was the right opportunity for you? This could be a business career, creative ministry opportunity and any other type of opportunity that's available that could come into your life And while in the valley of decision, you end up doing nothing Or you do a whole bunch of other things that don't actually move the needle towards your ultimate goal. I have definitely been there, but I've also been able to overcome this dilemma. So in this episode, me and my friend Sanya, who's a doctor, a songwriter and just a prolific woman of God reigning from the continent of Africa, are going to break down three major revelations that will help you get clarity in this part of your life so that you can become free from decision paralysis.
Speaker 2:
Vision yo.
Speaker 1:
We said something in the last time we spoke that kind of was like a sticky statement.
Speaker 2:
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:
That was a good idea isn't always a God idea, but a God idea is always a good idea.
Speaker 2:
That hit me in so many ways. I think in a very profound way, because we also say this at many times a God idea does have characteristics that are crazy or that are out of your reach or out of the norm, or something that seems unattainable in your own strength, sometimes, most of the times, and I probably think that's why we shun the God idea, because it's something that whoa, i don't think I can do this on my. I think I can pull this out, because a God idea requires dependence on God and surrender. Surrender and dependence to his ways. How you're gonna go about it? And we also say last time that a God idea sometimes could be a good idea, and I asked you that question as well. I said how do you? is there any moment where we could have a God idea and a good idea mixed together, actually meshed together and put into one idea? or maybe is a God idea something that's completely that I'm completely resistant to, because I feel like sometimes, when we talk about God's will, we're like, oh, god's will not again, god's will. No like he's like literally telling you don't do what you wanna do. I know what's best, i'm your heavenly father, you should do it. Probably like practically giving you orders. That's how I perceived God's will for a very long time. So sometimes I will admit even till today when I hear God's will, there's that inner resistance in me that it might not be what I want.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, let's stay here real quick. So this is something that I personally have beef with.
Speaker 2:
I get it.
Speaker 1:
As a believer, i have beef with it because, like you said, when you hear that term or that phrase God's will for some reason I don't know how it was woven into the fabric of teaching or biblical analysis or doctrine or theology that we immediately assume a counter narrative to our original plans. Right, maybe because in the Bible there are lots of stories of people trying to do one thing and God changes their life and makes them do something else, maybe which is legitimate and fair and which happens all the time. But I feel like it's an unfair assumption And I think, especially for a lot of young people who are trying to figure out, or people who are just trying to figure out in general. You could be young at heart and trying to restart of this messing with their decision-making and they end up in this position of decision paralysis and end up doing nothing, which I think the enemy will love us to be in a place of doing nothing right. Exactly. Because when we have a good idea or when we want to do God's, will we automatically assume that I have to and anything that I want? that's not it, exactly.
Speaker 2:
Exactly, and I forget about it. I forget about it. I really want to do this thing but I want to do God's will Exactly.
Speaker 1:
They're completely What's the word Like? there's a dichotomy between the two. They can't coexist, they're just a binary.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, a binary and antagonistic as well, because it's where my desires. It's almost like my desires. If I raise my desires, then God's will, or God's desires, automatically. And if God's desires are raised, then my desires will go down the scale. Yeah Right.
Speaker 1:
Which.
Speaker 2:
I'm not really sure if that's 100, but not always the case. like you say, it's not always the case, But sometimes, most likely, it is the case.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I think that and that's what I'm trying to kind of understand for myself and for anyone that comes through any of Anything that I'm doing, any programs or any podcasts, interviews or anything, because I hear that question a lot. I'm just trying to figure out what God's will is for my life, or I'm trying to determine which path to take, or I'm trying to figure out what my purpose is. like all these different things And personally, from all the research, the studying, the biblical reading I have done, i think a lot of Oh okay. so I did an episode a little while back. I forgot what it was called. I believe it was episode 103 or 104. And I said that you can't follow God's will until you understand your own.
Speaker 2:
Ooh Right Wow.
Speaker 1:
And I think I might've mentioned this before in our conversation, because I was like if you're submitting yourself to God's will, there has to be something to submit.
Speaker 2:
Yeah Right, there has to be something to surrender.
Speaker 1:
To surrender right, And I feel like a lot of believers just completely cancel out what they actually desire.
Speaker 2:
Ooh, yeah.
Speaker 1:
I heard a phrase today. I thought it was the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life. What It shows, that if you say something confidently, people will follow Yeah. Oh my God. So, and he's a great. I've read a lot of his books, phenomenal coach, strategist, businessman. But he said the stupidest thing I thought I've ever heard today. He said you want what you want. And I was like, oh, okay, i could see that. Okay, you desire what you desire.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
But the whole premise behind it was. Like usually, when you say share something that you want, people ask you well, why?
Speaker 2:
Why do you want that Which?
Speaker 1:
I think is a fair question. I ask why all the time. And he was like there is no reason. You want it because you want it, and that is enough of a reason within itself. And I was like that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 2:
Okay, okay, yes and no. Yes and no. It is dumb because I don't know. When somebody asks you or you ask somebody a question, you expect some form of deep, transformational answer, which is what we expect. But sometimes it's just as simple as that. Like, oh, why, if somebody asks me, why do you love the color brown? Like, i love brown, it's my favorite color. Why do you love the color brown? Because I love it. And sometimes, maybe, if someone gives you that answer, it's probably because they haven't searched deep enough as to why they want what they want or why they like that particular thing. But sometimes, before you get to the deep, stuff is something as simple as wanting it because you want it, and what you want is valid as well. So I kind of get what he was saying. It sounds dumb because you hearing from a guru. That's why it sounded like, well, we expected more from you than this, but sometimes it is simple.
Speaker 1:
I think it worked because he is a guru, i think. If the average person said that, then like, shut up, like why are you even talking about that I know. I know Because he has like some credibility. People are like oh, you know that's a good point Yeah yeah yeah, but yeah, i think I personally think that's a lazy answer And I do get it. Someone asked like I'm wearing a chain or whatever. Oh, are you wearing that chain? Because I like the chain, i thought it looked nice, i thought I liked it.
Speaker 2:
There's no, there's no you know, whatever There's no huh.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
But, like.
Speaker 1:
Honestly, though, if we went deeper right, if I like the chain, if I think it looks nice right, that means that there's some type of social or status type of thing that is playing in the back of my subconscious, where it's like I want to look nice right.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And why do I want to look nice? Well, you know, i want to be presentable in front of people. Why do you want to be presentable in front of people? Well, i don't know, my wife might be at the store.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, who knows? I'm very serious about my image of how I show up in front of people. I show up in front of the world. That's true.
Speaker 1:
Exactly. I'm a businessman. I never know when my next deal is coming.
Speaker 2:
Exactly.
Speaker 1:
There are other things that are playing in the background. And of course we could say, well, I just want it, But I never. I never think that's the case. I think there's always something deep behind every single thing that we do, every single.
Speaker 2:
You're right, even the color brown.
Speaker 1:
It's like why do you like the color brown? Because I'm brown. That's why, Cause I'm brown And I actually. I see it every day.
Speaker 2:
Why I actually discovered the deeper meaning behind brown And it made sense. I'm like that's why I love brown.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, So there is always What's the deeper meaning behind brown.
Speaker 2:
Well, behind brown I checked it out Every color has a deeper meaning behind it. So if it's your favorite color or you're drawn or attached with, probably have it. Probably because some of the characteristics that represent that color represent you. So, for example, brown is a symbol of earth. Brown is earthy, brown means groundedness, and that's just me. I'm earthy, i'm grounded. The earth, mother earth. I love to walk with my feet bare everywhere, like be it in the grass and the sand and whatever in the house. I love that. And also, brown symbolizes warmth. I've forgotten the other characters, but it was. It was very me. I was like, yeah, yeah, that is me. That's why I love brown. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, what's blue mean Cause my favorite color is always been blue, oh, blue, oh.
Speaker 2:
Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something about blue, blue. Yeah, blue is likened to the ocean. So think about the ocean. The ocean is deep, the ocean is cold sometimes most of the times but blue also symbolizes love. We mistake the color red for love. You know that we have somebody in some sense. You're heart emoji and it's red.
Speaker 1:
Our red was like anger or intensity or something.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, red is passion, intensity, yeah, passion and intensity, and fire, yeah, but blue. Blue is actually peace, serenity, depth and coldness, and also love as well. Like the love that's in. the love that's associated with the color blue is the deeper type of love. Like it's a deep type of love, yeah.
Speaker 1:
That's, that's that's me, yeah, that's me.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, there's always something. There's always something Yeah.
Speaker 1:
I think that actually is a pretty. I think you know I definitely like to go deep. This is why we're having this conversation. I get deep about every. It annoys. It annoys people a lot actually Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
They're like bro, can you just let it rest?
Speaker 2:
please, please, give us a break today. No, no, but I get it.
Speaker 1:
Fine.
Speaker 2:
I get it. I love going deep as well. I think it's it's unfortunate that the people don't allow themselves to go deep because they're probably afraid of what they'll find when they go deep. Remember, last time we had the conversation, the last time we we had the video call, i said I was learning how to swim. Like I'm learning how to swim And I'm learning so much about water. I'm learning about the relationship that I have with water and I'm learning about how to relate to water. So water is neither good nor bad. The ocean is neither good nor bad. If you're on the surface, you could float and you're relaxed and whatever. But if you go deep, it's another type of energy, so that type of atmosphere. So, depending on which level you are, some people are afraid. I've discovered some people are afraid to go deep because they they're afraid they might just drown. You might not be able to swim in those waters. But sometimes if you are on the surface, you're on the top, nothing, nothing is able to harm you. You're floating, you're relaxed, you're you know the waves will come and sweep you. You go with the flow. But when we we say now dive deeper, it requires more because your lung capacity, you know your lungs are going to require more from you, your body is going to require more from you, and sometimes people are just not ready for that.
Speaker 1:
It's scary, scary to go deep.
Speaker 2:
You better be prepared to go deep.
Speaker 1:
Wow.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Wow, You know that is so deep.
Speaker 2:
That is so deep. Speaking of depth. Speaking of depth.
Speaker 1:
Like because that's so true I and I respect all views on this. Like I said, i'm a, i'm a thinker, i'm a challenger, a lot of things. Often I'm a skeptic, which I think, if utilized properly, can be a spiritual gift, but I don't. I don't really get upset anymore I used to when people shy away from going deep Because I can, i can understand right. I have more empathy because there's some fear like associated with that And it's like really self preservation.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so preservation and protection.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, like if I, if I dive into this in my mind, i don't know if I'll be able to get back up.
Speaker 2:
for exactly, exactly, well, put a hundred percent, a hundred percent. So what do people do? They rather stay on the surface. They're the keep it simple. They're a place safe, you know, being the comfort zone. No, exactly what you say is a hundred percent, because the truth is it does require a lot. It does require skill and ability to be able to go deep, because when you go deep, you might not like what you see because it think about it. What is on the surface is what is seen. What is seen, what is heard, you know, you can perceive the colors and all you see. You see clearly. What is deep is unseen And what is deep is. It requires a certain level of full self acceptance. You have to accept yourself a hundred percent, or at least 90 percent or above, in order for you to trust yourself that when you do go deeper, you will rise again. There is nothing wrong with going deeper, it is not a bad thing, it is a necessary thing, because we tend to undermine the fact that what is deep will reflect on what is on the surface. So if I don't even know what's down there and I don't even know, i'm showing up in the world. You know in this way and that way, and I don't even. I have no clue. Why am I showing up in the world this way? It's because I haven't done the in-work, i haven't gone deep enough. You know, And I understand you when you say you used to be mad when you try to have conversations with people and they wouldn't go deep. I used to be like that as well. It was until I understood that people react or people interact with us to the level of their consciousness or the level at which they can handle. Just because I can handle deep does not mean that they can handle deep, and sometimes I've learned, through empathy and compassion and love, to reach them where they are at, at the level where they are, but at the same time, being fully aware that that's not my style of communication. Therefore, i need to go be with my people, be with my deep people, so I can touch base, be myself, because there's something about going deep, something about if you're a deep person and you love deep conversations, it is not a luxury to have deep conversations, it is a necessity. You need to have deep conversations, it is a need to be able to survive in this world. You need If that's how you're wired, you need that, and I noticed with me, like when I would have superficial conversations simply because everybody's superficial and this is what they prefer, and whatever it would drain me to death. It would drain me, i just want to get out of here, let me just go take a walk and I just cannot stand to be here. And I learned this because it's the level and then the nature of the conversations. It's just not going deep because people are not being authentic with themselves And they would rather put on masks to be able to appear a certain way, because they think and feel that they have something to prove Why We don't know.
Speaker 1:
Do you think more people need to go deep, need to be deeper? Do you think more people need to go deep? Need to be deeper.
Speaker 2:
I think they should. I think they should give themselves the opportunity to go deep.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, i think everybody should do it. Was that the opportunity to go deep? That's a very good question.
Speaker 2:
For me, the opportunity to go deep begins with vulnerability. Yeah, you have to start there. You have to start with being vulnerable, and if you live today's society, you live with people. Vulnerability is actually seen as a weakness, like you don't want to show your weak side quote unquote because you're afraid of how people will see you or you have an image to protect, or maybe even your own perception. But I think, starting when you give yourself an opportunity to go deep, you start by being vulnerable, by showing the other that you are human and that you are simply going through the human experience just like they are. Because I always say this, when we look from the outside in, when we're looking from the outside, all I can see is the perception that I have of you. It's probably not as accurate or it could be accurate, based on what I see. And if you have insight, then that's most likely. Together with your insight and your intuition, you could have the right perception. But sometimes not everybody has insight and intuition. So that's how judgment begins. You look for it, you got somebody and you judge them. Oh, they must be this and this and this, because they do this and this and this. But until you actually sit down and have a conversation with them and allow them to show you who they are. And the question you asked how and where do we begin is by me first being vulnerable. It's funny how we expect things from other people when we ourselves are not willing to go the extra mile. I always say I can't ask somebody to give me something that I'm not even willing to give or show up in that way. So if I want somebody to show up in that way, it starts with me. I have to show them that I struggle. I have to show them that I have pain. I have to show them that I'm irritated. I have to show them that I don't like it here. I have to show them that just because you see me smiling and social media and doing all these things, doesn't mean that I don't cry, Doesn't mean that I'm happy 100%. So starting from vulnerability And vulnerability takes courage. It takes a lot of courage.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely, i completely agree with that. I have noticed whenever because I do believe that is one thing that God has called me to do, which is kind of a manifestation of what this podcast has become is to have meaningful, transformational conversations, not even on camera, not even on my, just in life.
Speaker 2:
And you do that. You do do that, you possess that.
Speaker 1:
I used to do it because that was just me And that's the way God wired me, but lately I've been more intentional about doing it, even with people that I don't feel like doing it with.
Speaker 2:
Oh wow, That's great.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, just because I feel like that is something that God has called me to. And I have noticed, when I do that, by me taking the first step of being vulnerable, it unlocks, like you know, because people are like oh, how's it going? Oh, everything's fine, oh, i'm good.
Speaker 2:
Doing well, how are you?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and then I go and I say something like you know well, i've really been trying to figure out like this aspect of my life and it's really been weighing like it's getting me like a little down lately And like really, when they ask me, you know why Or I can go even deeper, and then they're like well, you know, i've been struggling with you know, and I'm like ah, there we go. Yes, now we're getting somewhere.
Speaker 2:
And I know it's so true. It's so true. I remember I tried it as well. I tried it, like, several times and it's worked. It's worked Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't work, depending on the person. Yeah, and that's another thing. Another aspect is vulnerability. There's always the flip side to being vulnerable and I'm being open to somebody is that you risk being hurt or you risk being judged, but then again it has nothing to do with you, but everything to do with the other person, because you're simply just sharing from the heart and everything that comes from the heart and sharing your human experience, trying to show the other person that, look, we don't have to have it all together, we don't have to appear that we have it all together. We don't have it all together. In fact, it is an illusion, life is an illusion. We don't have it all together. Of course, do share wisely and prudently. Now that I speak, speaking of vulnerability, it doesn't mean that you go around the street and just blow it out. Everything that's going on with your life and just requires wisdom, requires prudence And also depending on what you're looking for, because I've also noticed one of the attributes that God's given me is being a good listener, and I always wondered why? Why? Because people would come up to me and they would just like, just like, do it. I wasn't even. I was just going to buy bread, that's it, you know. And we're deep. And I asked myself, like what is it about me? What do I have? Is it like there's a sign to my forehead that says oh good, listener, anybody you know And I used to be mad. I used to be so mad, so mad because even not even I could help myself. It just came out natural. Not even I could help myself, i would. When somebody just started opening up and pouring out their heart, i would like, i feel you, i am here for you, i am present with you And it was an honor to do that. Whilst the person would leave a little bit, much better, i, on the other hand, being an empath, i had to learn how to deal with those emotions and learn to detach from what I hear, learn and actually educate myself, train myself for the fact that what somebody tells me about what they're going through, no matter how terrible it may be and everything, and I sympathize, i empathize At the end of the day, it has nothing to do with me. I just listen. It has absolutely nothing to do with me. Therefore, i do not have the responsibility to bear what that person is bearing. I don't have to carry that load. I can encourage the person to take that load, that load to the Lord, because that's my job, that's our job. Actually, there's a book Boundaries I think it's the second chapter or something. Very, very good book. It talks about Townstead That's his last name Townstead Boundaries. Yeah, it's actually a series. It's these boundaries how to say no And also it's Christian-based, so it's Christian-focused, talking about how Christians it's important for Christians to have boundaries and you being a Christian doesn't necessarily mean you have to say yes to everything So it's an amazing book. And then you have Boundaries in dating, boundaries in marriage, boundaries in parenting. So it's an amazing book. It's like different series, you know, for different situations. And I think the second chapter of the book talks about bearing one another's burdens and carrying someone's burdens. It makes a clear distinction. Actually There's a clear distinction. I think it's in Galatians, where it says bear one another, or bear one another's burdens, or bear with one another, or bear one another's burdens or something like that. I would love to really reference the scripture, but I don't have a Bible right now And the book actually makes a clear distinction that we as Christians do not have it clear. When Paul says to bear one another, to bear one another's burdens is not the same as carrying the load for somebody. What is the difference? Bearing one another's burdens is when somebody's going through something and it's deep and it's heavy and whatever. Before I learned about this clear distinction in the past, i thought bearing somebody's burdens was me being 100% there, like I'm talking about everything, my all my energy and just anything that they need. I am there 100%. But then, until I learned, when I started to get drained and I started to actually discover the beauty of what boundaries are, i learned that I could still help, still be present and still be there, but it does not mean that it has to be at the expense of losing myself or killing myself. Quote unquote, because it's a very thin line. Some people are just guilty or feel bad for saying no, when actually saying no is your birthright. You can say no. And you saying no does not mean you're a bad person. You can say no, it's your birthright.
Speaker 1:
There's a young lady on social media. I love her videos. The different name is just wit or something like that. Just wit, i think I know her, you're not talking about her yet, And she has this phrase that's so funny to me every time when she's like a friend's commenter, she's like girl, you know, and she's like mm-mm. I don't have the capacity.
Speaker 2:
I watch that reel. I don't have the capacity. No, no, i don't have the capacity. Yeah, because sometimes we need to be honest I do not have the capacity. And another thing speaking of capacity is, and communicating. The fact that we don't have the capacity through boundaries is that boundaries save relationships. Boundaries do not separate relationships. Most women, dare I say, almost empaths, think, or most people that have a tendency to people please, they think that when they say no, then, oh my God, it's the end of the world. How's the other person going to perceive me, i'm such a bad person and whatever. So that's why they end up saying yes instead of saying no, because they don't know how the other person will handle it. But the truth is, being honest about the situation and actually communicating to your friend or loved one that at that moment you do not have the capacity, you cannot be there for them in the way that they wish or desire, is healthy for you and for the relationship and friendship. And that's why I say because it shows that you are authentic enough to be real with the other person And you trust that you just simply be yourself and who you are will be handed and well received by the other person And if well received, if and when well received, then you know that that is your person. The right people will respect your no and they will support you when you say no, even if they don't like it in the moment, because the friendship is that important. They'll support you in that 100%. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
I think there's a really big difference between being authentic and then being vulnerable, where, like you can be 100% authentic while being vulnerable, but you don't always have to be vulnerable while being authentic.
Speaker 2:
True 100%.
Speaker 1:
You know what I'm saying 100%, thank you. I'm telling you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yeah, that doesn't mean that I'm going to trust you with every truth that I have.
Speaker 2:
True, that is true.
Speaker 1:
So I think we do have to be very like discerning about that, because not everyone is able to steward what you share with them. Ooh, not everyone has the capacity Yeah. Not everyone has the capacity, even if they think they do.
Speaker 2:
Even if they think they do. Not everyone has the capacity. You know what? Just the other day, i was journaling and I was saying I was in a different setting, in a different place, and I was journaling. And when I was there, i was like, wow, i love how being here makes me feel free, and when I'm free I feel safe. And so I asked myself why? why does this place inspire me to live in my freedom and therefore create safety for me? And I was at a friend's house. Actually last week I was at a friend's house And I haven't always been there, not all I go and visit, you know, like if I want to just escape and just change a change of scenery. But this time it was different. This time it was different And I finally realized and understood why that place inspired those things in me was the fact that they themselves my friend, her family, her sister they live In that freedom, they live in that truth. So, therefore, they inspire me to live in that freedom, to live in that truth, to be safe, to be who I am. It's funny how, you know, i used to hear all the vibes. The vibes, all the energy The energy isn't right the vibes. I was like what was wrong with it? What was this thing with these vibes and whatever? Until today, i'm like it is so true, energy does not lie, ladies and gentlemen. Energy doesn't lie. We do not lie. Certain people have the ability to emit and inspire certain energy and inspire certain vibes. It is a real thing, 100%. And we better be paying attention to what type of vibes or energy we're receiving from people, because that says a lot about them And therefore gives you an opportunity on what you're going to do about it. Do you stay or do you leave, or do you adjust accordingly? So it's very, very important. And I say to myself because I'm also currently reading the book The Mountain is You I think it's by Brene Brown, i forget, but Brown at the end of the mountain, is you, brene?
Speaker 1:
Brown yeah.
Speaker 2:
Brene Brown. If there is any book that I recommend all humanity, all human beings, to read and I'm talking about read, sit down, digest it is the book The Mountain is You, because The Mountain is You And if you don't know that you're The Mountain, you won't be able to climb it. The Mountain is You. Up until now, so far, with everything that I've read, the chapters that I've read, goes deep. You know the deep stuff we're talking about. It goes deep. It shows you certain aspects, certain emotions, where they come from, how they show up and why we feel what we feel when we're going through those things. The concept of The Mountain is You is to show you that you are your own limits. You know the thing that, oh, I can't do this because I don't know. No, you are The Mountain, the Mountain is You, that mountain that seems so hard to climb and you look at it and it's like, oh my God, how am I going to get there? There are certain things that seem so far-fetched. You know it's virtually impossible. How am I going to do this? But you can do this. But you've got to figure out and you've got to understand that The Mountain is You. It begins with You, your mindset, and if you don't know yourself, it's impossible to overcome the things that you want to overcome. It's impossible to leave your comfort zone if you don't even know what you're made up of.
Speaker 1:
Yes, Yes, And this I think this kind of it pulls back around to the good versus God idea thing. Right, Because we've been going deep on being deep, We've been going deep on being authentic, We've been going deep on being unashamedly You, And there's a level of when you talk about The Mountain is You? there's a level of like unawareness that goes into this right, Where you don't realize how much you're getting in your own way, And I think a lot of that has to deal with not going deep on You, On You Right Understanding. Why am I thinking this? why am I? what is my belief system? right, What is my belief system? I did a video, I think back in 2020, where I forgot the title, but it was something like losing my religion or something like that. Right, I think it was. I think it was when Kirk Franklin was talking about all that stuff I was hearing in a lot of evangelical spaces. I lost my religion and gained a relationship.
Speaker 2:
Things like that.
Speaker 1:
And I was like I don't understand. But the point I made in the video and I think my sentiments would have changed, i was a little younger and I've learned a lot since then was that religion isn't necessarily what we think it is. when we hear the word religion, right, we think church. We think group of people, right. We think congregations, we think rituals and traditions. When really religion, when you say you do something religiously, it doesn't mean that you do it in a church. You, it's something that you do repeatedly because of a belief system that you have. Right, It's intentional repetition.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
I work out religiously, i eat well religiously, like you know things that you do religiously. I watch TV religiously Whatever it is we use that word. So, when it comes to our belief system, like it's not even about religion, what do you believe as a human being, about who you are, who you are and who you're called to serve? right, Those three things completely shape the paradigm that you live within. There's something that I talk about called the life, the circle of life, and not the one from Lion King, a different circle of life where it goes belief. So think of like an arrow of circles or a circle of arrows, where it's like belief leads to an emotion, an emotion leads to an action and action leads to results.
Speaker 2:
Ooh, I like that.
Speaker 1:
Results reinforce the belief.
Speaker 2:
Oh, yes, yeah, I like that Definitely.
Speaker 1:
So we feel like we're trapped in this quagmire right When is really a self-inflicted cycle that is going to continue to happen perpetually until you change how you believe.
Speaker 2:
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:
And this is why I alluded to the walk by sight, not by faith, because you believe what you see And, of course, all church people will be like. That's not true. I have faith because we walk by faith and not by sight. Yeah, The essence of things, hope for the evidence of things, not seen See, yeah, yeah, yeah, ooh, let's talk about it, But we constantly talk about having a relationship with Christ right, yeah. And we constantly talk about. oh, you have to experience Him, right, because no one they can argue theology, they argue Actually, no one can argue your experience.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, no one can argue.
Speaker 1:
But that is the biggest thing when it comes to the word of your testimony. When you experience something, that means that you've seen something in your life. So I believe it is unreasonable for you to go from this to this level of faith without ever seeing anything.
Speaker 2:
No.
Speaker 1:
It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2:
No, it doesn't make sense at all. You have to have had some form of experience, so seen something.
Speaker 1:
Yes, mm-hmm, you have to have seen something. So when I say we walk by sight, not by faith, i mean that sight is the beginning of that life cycle of belief. You start to believe once you saw something shift in your life. You saw something. You didn't just take it as it is what it is, yeah. And if you did take it as it is what it is, that will eventually crumble underneath of you.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And then you run chip into your paradigm and everything falls apart.
Speaker 2:
Exactly, exactly. It's not solid, it's not tangible. What hasn't been experienced is based on theory. Yeah, based on theory. Yeah, completely.
Speaker 1:
Exactly, wow. I think that's why things like Scientology and Atheism, you know the Church of Science can have such a strong foundation in believing truth because There is evidence, there is evidence, yeah, there is evidence, there is evidence, yeah.
Speaker 2:
There is evidence.
Speaker 1:
And I think there's just as much evidence on the other side.
Speaker 2:
True, you know, it's funny, you mentioned this. This actually reminds me of a scenario we had I had about a couple of years ago I was still in med school, i was still going to classes and everything. So we had this subject with pediatrics. So in pediatrics we would have these trips, weekly trips. We would go to a hospital That's like two hours away from here and we would go see the patients and then we'll get back to university And I remember we were four of us, four or five students in each group that they separated us, and on our way back to the university, after coming from the hospital, a debate was stirred up about the existence of God, and so I just sat down and I was listening to what everybody was saying. One friend was so stern and adamant to the fact that God doesn't exist. That's just something that they've. Religion is just something that's inflicted on people to be able to, like, control them, control the masses or whatever. And I just kept quiet, listened respectfully and I understood where she was coming from, until I said something and I said okay, i have a question for you, lucy, is your friend right? She's like yeah, she's my friend. Okay, imagine I am also your friend. But I don't know Lucy, and I come up to you and I say, oh, lucy, you see that Lucy, the one, you, your so-called friend, she's this and this and this and this and this and everything that I'm saying is completely wrong. How would you respond? And she's like no, obviously it's wrong, it's not the truth, whatever like. But how do you know that what I'm saying is not the truth? And she's like no, because I know her, like exactly. Okay, i also have another example. Before I came to Argentina, i had a perception about Argentina. One of the perceptions I had about Argentina was oh, it was a romantic country and all the Argentinian men were romantics. You know, you'd be walking down the streets of Buenos Aires and somebody would just pop up with a flower and a rose and whisper sweet nothings to you. That was the perception that I had of Argentina or Buenos Aires, until I came to Buenos Aires, in Argentina, and I found that that was not the reality And I asked why? No, because you came? Yes, because I came, because I experienced. So it's also basically the same thing. If somebody can come up with a conclusion and say God does not exist, they have their right to express that, but do not inflict the same opinion on people who have experienced God, because it's not the same thing. On my hand, i cannot relate and I will not say that God doesn't exist because he exists 100% for me. He exists and has existed in many ways that are so real to me that there is no doubt in my mind or in my heart that he does not exist. And I shared a few examples of how it was so evident to me that he existed And you know, everybody was just quiet the whole trip back to the university. Even I was surprised why I shared those examples, but I really thought I understood and say it goes back to being to the simple things. It all goes back to the simple things. If you know something, you are in a much better position of sharing what you know. If you know something, you've experienced something, you're in a much better position of sharing what you know based on the experience that you've gone through, and nobody can take that away from you. Same thing with the atheists, same thing with anybody who's perfect in their arts or whatever. I mean, look at you, you're into podcasting. What's the sense would it make if somebody from nowhere comes to tell you oh, you know what? actually, what you're doing is wrong. It's done this way, this way, this way. First of all, you would laugh to their face. Who are you again? Excuse me, sir, respectfully, of course, but because sometimes people don't know what they're talking about, because they haven't experienced what they're talking about, which I actually think is very unfair to speak about something I like to call it speaking from without. Speaking from without. It's very different from speaking from within, because you know, if you've been inside, then you know, but if you have not been inside, there's literally nothing you can say.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, i have another name for it that I sometimes use. It has a little bit more nuance to other situations, but I think it applies here, and I call it the informed gospel, where the gospel that you have is one that you were told Or informed about, not one that you experienced. Exactly Because there's gonna be informed gospel and experienced gospel.
Speaker 2:
Definitely I like that.
Speaker 1:
And.
Speaker 2:
I'm gonna borrow that.
Speaker 1:
This is so. this is so deep. So I did an episode recently and the whole point of the episode was it came from a quote that I stole And it says we are kept from our goals not because of obstacles, but because of a clear path to a lesser goal.
Speaker 2:
Wow. Right, i said oh, my God, Oh, would you, would you please repeat that?
Speaker 1:
sir, yeah, yeah, so it says, and I forgot the guy's name. I'll put it in the description, or you could just listen to episode 138 of the podcast.
Speaker 2:
I could, i could.
Speaker 1:
I'm talking to a listener I use. We are kept from our goals not by obstacles, but by a clear path to a lesser goal.
Speaker 2:
That one speaks to me. I think that's why it's it's sunk. It speaks to me Because what I think it speaks to the majority. Honestly, because I think at the end of the day, like what you said, what I get from it is having clarity about what your priorities are, because I feel like in this world we have, you know, all goes back to what you said in the beginning, Like you have so many ideas being a visionary, you have so many ideas of like 50, 60, all coming shooting at you, but how do you manage to get from the, the phase of the ideas to actually bringing it out tangibly, especially as a creative? because with every idea, they will be some form of resistance, they will be some form of support. So I'm like, oh, this is a great idea. But then how do you bring it all the way to the stage of the final production, where it's like ready to be released? And I think, like this quote that you just shared, personally for me, it encourages me to get my priorities straight, like be clear on just one specific goal. You know the whole notion of multitasking was boom years ago, but today, today, is like okay, yeah, you can be a jack of all trades, you can do so many other things, you can have so many other ideas, but sometimes having too much going on actually, like you mentioned could give you that paralysis. When you're stuck, you don't know. You don't even know where to begin because there's so much going on. You have so much going on. Until you get clear on focusing on one thing, the other stuff will be done. It will be done if you wish and choose for it to be done, but if you can just be patient enough, focused enough on doing that one thing, finishing it and seeing it through, because I think the majority of this world and humanity has a problem with seeing through and finishing through with things. This is a role for me that has helped me. That helps me every day is when I'm working out. I have my routines for the week, for the workout in the gym. So Monday is day one, day one. I have these routines and this is what I have to do. I have to finish and follow through each and every routine right to the end. Then I know that I've accomplished. I have accomplished my goal and objective for that particular session And the sense of accomplishment and motivation that it gives you, knowing that you finished through. You pushed through every lift, every breath, every. You sweated. It was tough. Your brain told you oh no, no, no, i can't, please, let's just go home. I couldn't do something much better than this. And blah, blah, blah. All the excuses. You literally came overcame every excuse. You saw it through, you finished and you're done. Now you can go home and give yourself a treat on your way home while you're at it. So I feel like that quote really spoke to me to get clear on priorities and just sometimes don't have too much going on. It doesn't mean that you're being a pessimist or that you're not being a dreamer, but I think people like me and many other dreamers that are listening should learn to have the discipline of following through with each dream at a specific time. Discipline is actually freedom. Discipline is not constrainment. Discipline is freedom.
Speaker 1:
Yes, we can only have freedom because of boundaries.
Speaker 2:
Exactly.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and this you who are listening right now I'm talking to you could be questioning well, how do I know which one I should prioritize? Because I have a lot of ideas and there are a lot of good ideas, a lot of ideas that I'm pretty sure and know will work. And I think I mentioned this in our last conversation where I said what I've experienced and what I've seen other successful visionaries experience is that you don't want to let go of a good idea because it's a good idea. But I got idea won't let go of. You Say that again. And when you think about it, okay, what is the idea that I cannot shake Right, because good ideas come and go. You're like, oh, i want to do this thing, and then, like a month later, you're like I don't know, and then you kind of just forget about it Yeah, you have all the and you go through life like that. That happens And someone else might have the idea and actually do it and it works for them. Great, Okay, But God ideas, it's like I cannot. It's been five years. I cannot shake this. I just feel like I need to execute this thing, and it often happens that and this is what I talk about, episode 138, where it's like we don't abandon the dream, we don't, we don't like say no God, i'm not, i'm not going to do it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Right. But we just kind of get like Jonah, like I'm not going to go the way you said. I'm going to hop on this ship, right, quick.
Speaker 2:
Do it my way, and do it my way.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah, right, i'm going to be Saul and, like, make the sacrifice before Samuel gets there, because I you know what I'm saying. That story always, man, i forgot what word that is. It's the first Samuel, but it's a story where Saul is waiting for Samuel to come And he does the sacrifices to God before seeing the instructions were to wait till Samuel got there But. Samuel was taking forever. I was like you know what, saul? they'd be trying to play you boy.
Speaker 2:
I feel you, I feel you Like how Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't happen like, even if it's, especially when it's a God idea. You see, I see, I think one of the reasons why what we talked about the beginning was why the reason why we there's that inner resistance when we talk about going through with a God idea, is we're actually truly afraid of surrendering. At least I speak in my part.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, I think that's true.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, the surrender. Because if you look, let's just put a magnifying glass on the aspect of surrender. It's different If I say, okay, clee, i want you and me to go to Hawaii, we're going to go Hawaii, we're going to go this summer, blah, blah. Sounds a good idea, like, oh yeah, i'm up for it. Yeah, yeah, but there's conditions to this invitation. The conditions are that I will wake you up at whatever time I feel like. You cannot go wherever you want to go. You have to go where I tell you you're supposed to go. You cannot hang out with whoever you want to hang out with. I will tell you who to hang out with. I will put people in your pathway. Yeah, then, and all these, these are, you know, following instructions. Tell me if you're going to still have the same level of excitement that you had when you received the invitation to go to Hawaii. Then, after now that you've received the invitation to go to Hawaii, but with these conditions. I think it's the same thing also with a God idea, because a God idea, humanly speaking, will restrict your freedom. Quote, unquote You are under the authority and guidance of God. It means you can. You are not of your own. You know, paul says we're not of our own, you are not, you can't, you can't just be up in here in these streets doing whatever you want, however you want, whether you feel like, whether you are totally dependent on God. And if you look at humanity and the way human beings we are wired, is that we are addicted to control. Tell me everything, but let me, let me be in control. I need to have something in my control. But when it's a God idea, god invites us to release and relinquish that control. And that's the part that scares us the most, because we know whoa, whoa, whoa. What happens to me if I give you the control. Like what, what do I have? And then the aspect of obedience, dependence on Him. It's funny how we're always saying, oh, depend on God, depend on God. We have no idea what it means to depend on God completely. I don't think we have. We have the slightest clue, because when God tests us, our attitude towards being dependent on Him, our attitude towards seizing control, our attitude towards. That's why I mentioned at the beginning that when sometimes I've heard the will of God, there's like okay, lord, i do want to do your will, but my heart has to get there. My heart has to get to the place where I surrender And it's just not a thing where I'm speaking with my mouth, i'm just not saying, oh, i want to do God's will, it's a God idea. So that sometimes I've experienced I've heard many experiences from friends that are missionaries. You know that have different ministries, you know that are self-sponsored ministries And some of the stuff I hear, clee, it is ridiculous And I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what it means when God is the one who is sponsoring, when God is the one who's behind your ministry. It literally means sometimes you don't even know where your next paycheck is going to come from. You don't know where your next money is going to. You don't know where your next meal is going to come from. But He does and He'll provide and He'll touch people and He'll use people and that's going to humble you, that's always going to put you in a place of humility and complete dependence, because you know the one that's called you to this is the one that's going to see you through. So there is no place for self-exaltation when it comes to God idea. There is no place for self-exaltation, there is no place for self-credit, because you know 100% I am where I am, and I'm here today because I said yes to a God idea, and sometimes it's rough, but a God idea is definitely faith-based. You do not lean on your sight or on your own understanding. You lean on Him. And that's what we're talking about about faith. Faith is real. Faith is strengthened when you're executing a God idea or you say yes to a God idea.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, i think that's the key word too is the execution. I wrote down before this conversation what I thought the three characteristics of a God idea were. There could be more, but I have here number one. you are not the primary benefactor. Exactly That doesn't mean that you won't be a benefactor, but the purpose behind the idea is not about you.
Speaker 2:
It's not about you.
Speaker 1:
And the thing is, though, you might know that or you might not know, because you don't know who the benefactor is. True, There have been plenty of situations where I've done something just because I felt called to do something, not knowing why. I find out later oh, that wasn't even about me. True.
Speaker 2:
You're right Most of the times, always. it's never about us. It's about the benefit of another person. It's about service.
Speaker 1:
Yes, it's about service, So that doesn't mean that you cannot benefit.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, true.
Speaker 1:
It just means that you are not the primary. You're not the primary, it's not the point Number two it is beyond logic, ration or common sense. If it's perfectly logical, it's most likely the clear path to a lesser goal, Right That we choose. The ideas are inherently go against common sense, where you have to have some level of faith in order to activate this thing. And that leads to number three it requires dependency on God. True Requires.
Speaker 2:
Requires. It's an requirement.
Speaker 1:
It's beyond God aka faith, And this goes back to the circle of life, and we walk by sight not by faith, or faith not by sight. Right? Which one is it? It's because you do have to have the faith, right? Yeah, you have to believe and trust in a God that you cannot physically see. And I want to make clear when I say you walk by sight, not by faith, i'm not talking about what you see in the world Now, it could be something that you see in the world, but I'm more so talking about what you see in your mind and in your heart.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, through experience as well.
Speaker 1:
Through experiences like the physical world. This is at least my belief. The physical world is just a manifestation of the spiritual realm, i agree. I believe the more real reality is actually what we can't see, and the result of that reality is what we can see, wow. So, like when I say walk by sight, like that can mean literally things that you cannot see physically, that you have seen. Yeah, You know what I'm saying And that's the whole. Like the name build your vision, is it's dual and purpose where it's like okay, yeah, you think, build your vision. Oh, i have a goal that I'm trying to build to her, but it literally means we're building how you see how you see impacts how you believe. how you believe impacts how you feel. how you feel impacts how you act and how you act impacts your results, Yes, and your results reinforce your beliefs.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so that is deep and true.
Speaker 1:
The God idea, like I, to kind of just put a bow on this and kind of wrap this up like I think the most important part is to first determine and I'll ask you to add on to this once I say these determine what idea has not let go of you, right, because that is a key difference between a good idea and a God idea. Number two has it fit this criteria that we just said? Yeah, you are not the primary benefactor.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
It's beyond logic, rational common sense and it requires faith or dependency on.
Speaker 2:
God.
Speaker 1:
And then number three, the whole kind of tangent we went on the middle of this conversation of going deep in authenticity and vulnerability. Have you been completely honest with yourself about what you want?
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And then you can decide whether you're going to surrender. Who about? Because if we don't, if we aren't perfectly clear on what we actually desire, i don't think we could properly surrender, because we don't know what we're offering up.
Speaker 2:
True, true. And now there's two questions like about this is I don't think this podcast is enough for all these two. These two questions I'm about to ask Because it's something we need to think about. Like number one, as you were speaking, i listened attentively and carefully And I do agree, and I ask this question are God ideas always big ideas? And another question is how do I know that the desires I have are actually a part of this God idea? Sometimes can my desires be aligned with the God idea? And I think we talked about this last time in the Bible study shout out TKG. We said that the closer we get to God, the more our desires are more inclined and are very similar to his desires. So and this is something you mentioned as well in the conversation last time how it's important to also pay attention to what we desire, because sometimes it is in our desires that God is speaking to us, because the fact that you like that thing and it's something you desire most likely does come from God, especially if you have a relationship with him. And because sometimes we doubt. We have this doubt in ourselves and also backing it up, you know, with the book of Jeremiah and says oh, the heart of man is just pretty wicked and deceitful. Who can know it? So you have scriptures like that, you know that, are telling you okay, your heart, don't trust it. But at the same time you have, you know, david that comes and tells you oh, delight yourself in the Lord, even grant you the desires of your heart. So there's that gray area. The question is found in you know, like in the value of indecision, like sometimes and that's why many people go through this as well Like how do I know if what I want is actually what God wants? I know it's in his will, i will probably know it, because if it's his will, then it's going to come to pass. But before it comes to pass, because sometimes I think we're waiting on God, you know, to do something I'm waiting upon the Lord. But sometimes God is waiting on us And sometimes he's like no, i've given you everything. Your environment, it's supporting you, your talents, i've given you everything. Now it's time for you to move. And sometimes we're stuck in that place because we're waiting on God. So all these little logistics, you know, i feel personally like you it takes a while. It takes a while to navigate. That's why we call it navigating. It takes a while to navigate through these questions and actually find where you are. And even when you are in the center of God's will, does it mean that everything will go with the flow? Does it mean it will always be green grass and sunshine? Does it mean that you will always have happy days and not bad days? You know, i think we have a tendency I've heard so many times in relationships when a couple begins a relationship, they're like oh, you know, this is God's will. Hey, we prayed about it. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And yes, they get married and everything. You know the struggle comes. You know the years and marriage and life. You know life happens. And then, when life is happening, they question was it if in God's will for me to be with this person? So I think as human beings we have that if it doesn't go well, if it doesn't go according to my standards and expectations, it might not be God's will, and many times that's not the case. Sometimes being in God's will means you've got to. It's going to tear you apart. It's going to, you're going to be transformed, and transformation is not always pretty. It's not always pretty.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, i can't remember where I heard it, but I heard it recently where, i think it might have been a pastor was saying, like a lot of times when we see adversity right, we're like the devil is a liar. Like you know, he is attacking my and he was like, honestly, i think you need to be more worried when everything's going real smooth. Yeah, i was like that's a good one, he's got a point there, like because that's a good one, that means there's no resistance from you know, like if you're doing something that's according to God's will, that's a God idea. I respect resistance.
Speaker 2:
Oh, i love that. Existence and chaos. I love that. I love that. Wow, thank you so much for sharing that. That's it. That's it.
Speaker 1:
Home. that hit home in every way. Yes, like, and I think the one thing that you said, like you posed the two questions, but I think you honestly kind of said the answer when, when expounding on it?
Speaker 2:
I think I did it.
Speaker 1:
The first question was move.
Speaker 2:
Move.
Speaker 1:
You know, yeah. And I think that's the only way. It kind of is a situation of which comes first the chicken or the egg, which comes first the experience or the trust, i don't know. But, like, you got to move in order to figure that out. Yeah, because, like, once you trust him, you'll experience him. Once you experience him, the more you're going to trust him. And whoever has been choosing if you're listening to this right now you've been choosing the lesser but more clear goal. Look, you got to get clear. But once you're clear on it, there's going to be resistance. Yeah, and there's always going to be a way of less friction And unfortunately, i've done this myself so many times. I choose the route of less friction, not because I'm giving up on the dream, but I think it might be a better route to get there.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
God has given us the route to go, and that is the way that's going to not only make us achieve the goal, but have us become the person who can handle it.
Speaker 2:
Oh, yes, the person who can handle it. That's deep.
Speaker 1:
Becoming is a whole another episode.
Speaker 2:
Oh, i love it, i love to hear it.
Speaker 1:
So I asked you this last question before we sign off, so you can have the floor last, if you and I. this is my favorite question. I've been asking this question for years. If you had a billboard sponsored by you, sonia, and everyone on the world, in the world was like driving on the singular highway And they all passed this billboard. What would you want the message to be that they all read?
Speaker 2:
It would be the change you would love to see. I mean, that's it.
Speaker 1:
Be the change you want.
Speaker 2:
Because everything begins with you.
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